Quit Your Crying Brock Haters
Once Brock Lesnar tapped Shane Carwin out in the second round of the big heavyweight championship fight last night at UFC 116, I was pretty certain of one thing; the Brock haters would come out in droves to say that the fight should’ve been stopped in the first round. It was just going to happen. Fans of Shane Carwin, or even the louder minority, non-Brock fans would justify Shane’s loss and Brock’s win by saying that Brock was enabled too many chances to survive and thus win.
On this very website, in our predictions post, I said that Brock was going to try wear Shane down into the second round.
Here are my actual words:
I think this fight can end at any time, and because of that, Lesnar will use his wrestling and go for takedown after takedown. I think whoever gets tired first will lose and we’ve seen Lesnar go three rounds before, but not Carwin. I see Lesnar getting Carwin down late in the 2nd and then just using his weight to hold him down and win by ground and pound.
While Lesnar didn’t win by ground and pound, and while that strategy was forced upon him by eating a Carwin uppercut and holding on for his dear life, it’s pretty much what happened. I didn’t see the arm triangle coming, but many have said that’s why Randy Couture was brought in to help him. Brock wanted to learn how to use his wrestling to set up submissions.
The key to whether or not the fight should’ve been stopped early is what actually happened. Usually, late stoppages are questioned because of the amount of punishment a fighter is taking and we’re taking into account the safety of the fighter. Let’s look at the Jann Finney vs. Cris Cyborg fight. In that fight, it’s arguable of when the fight should’ve been stopped because Finney never did anything and simply took punishment until she couldn’t take punishment anymore.
In this case, we have definitive proof that referee Josh Rosenthal did the right thing. Brock Lesnar came back and won. What other proof do you need to know? In a fight of this magnitude, where it was promised that it was the biggest heavyweight fight in UFC history and everyone watching who was not a thief paid their $50 bucks to watch it, Rosenthal made sure there was a clear cut winner.
I love how people are using gambling to argue in Carwin’s defense. Yes, let’s use gamblers as a criteria to figure in where to stop fights. That’s what happens in crooked sports.
At the post-fight press conference, Lesnar stated that he knew he could hang on because he felt Carwin getting tired after each shot. He felt Carwin’s power was lessening while he was covering up on the ground and was conserving his own energy. Like I said in my prediction, it was all about who was going to get tired first. And after the fight was over, Carwin hyperventilated according to Dana White and was taken to the hospital for precautionary reasons. The fact that he was so worn out after just 7 minutes of fighting is even more proof that the fight was refereed perfectly.
In the end, Brock will probably never get a fair shake by the Brock haters, but in reality, there are polarizing characters like this in most sports. The best basketball player in the world is loved in LA and absolutely hated in other parts of the nation. One of the two best boxers in the world is flashy and doesn’t knock people out, and thus, many people hate him. It comes with the territory of being great. When you are the “bad guy”, people are going to find a way to make excuses in their arguments against you. That’s sports.
9 thoughts on “Quit Your Crying Brock Haters”
I just want Alvarez to replay his comments on the Cyborg fight and explain away why they do not apply here. Cuz you know it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Cyborg to wind between rounds.
I am a big Brock fan. I did “pick” Carwin to win due to the unknown health status of Lesnar. Still I don’t think many people a couple times in that fight would have that big an issue of the fight being stopped a couple times in the first. I was dreading it due to the Brock haters gaining a platform to preach, but I don’t think I would of blamed the ref.
That said to last the storm like Brock did, to show submission skills in the end, and to be a better figurehead for the sport my hats off to Lesnar for what wound up being in the end, a great victory.
To me, it doesn’t matter if we would’ve cared if the fight was stopped in the first. Because we have the ability to see what happened in the end, it’s proven that stopping the fight in the first round would’ve been the wrong decision.
The Finney fight doesn’t apply here because she did nothing. Brock got the first takedown, started catching Carwin’s punches, Carwin even got up off the ground before jumping back in as a way to get some wind back, and then when Brock did get back up, he took him right back down. Cyborg never relented, and Finney never did one single thing.
All in all though, it makes great discussion. Thanks for the comment man. I could talk about this all day. Ha!
I look at it this way: had the fight been stopped during that beatdown that Carwin was giving in the first, I wouldn’t have complained. That the fight wasn’t stopped, also really doesn’t bother me because Brock got right up. I like the “ref factor”.
I would be interested in hearing what Rosenthal was thinking or hearing during those instances in the first. Was he screaming for Brock to fight back and if/when he did scream at Brock, is that when Brock opened up and tried to catch Carwin’s shots? Did Rosenthal say anything at all?
But the point is, now that we can play Sunday Morning QB because we saw what happened, stopping that fight in the first seems silly, no?
Like I said in one of the other threads, all fights are not created equal; just about any other fight probably does get stopped during that Carwin barrage but this is the heavyweight championship match. It needed clear resolution whereas other fights with lesser fighters could have been stopped and very few people would have complained.
But there is no controversy here.
Finney other than covering up was trying to land punches, although it was unsuccessful. I had no problem with the Finney fight and I had no problem really with the Brock fight. To me you can have the crystal ball and see that it would of determined the fight sure. Not having that though both went till there was a clear winner and there was no doubt who won.
Congrats to both Lesnar AND Cyborg for a well fought AND well officiated fights, even though those refs are hindered by the lack of the crystal ball we have before us now.
I for one am willing to admit the Finney fight was not that horribly reffed after watching the Lesnar fight … BUT … the difference is that Carwin was on Lesnar’s level and there was not a single iota of a chance that Finney was on Cyborg’s. Snowballs in Hell have a better chance of surviving than Finney did against Cyborg. It’s not that either one was wrong, it’s just that we all knew deep down Finney couldn’t come back and was only going to get hurt more, and that PERCEPTION made it seem worse.
In this case, we have definitive proof that referee Josh Rosenthal did the right thing. Brock Lesnar came back and won
I don’t agree with this opinion at all. Regarding the stoppage/ non stoppage, I don’t have a strong opinion either way. I think the ref did show some leniency compared to other fights. Maybe it could have been stopped, it wasn’t, we move on..
It is the theory in your argument that I just can’t agree with. The ref makes a stoppage to protect a fighter from taking unnecessary damage. The fact that Brock came back to win is a moot point. I have seen plenty of Sakuraba fights where the man has been beaten absolutely senseless, to the point no reasonable man could deem him capable of continuing. Then he would come back to life and pull out a submission on a gassed opponent, who has worn himself out from pummeling saku. That doesn’t make it the right call. If the fight should be stopped: it should be stopped.
The second reason it doesn’t hold weight is because of the idea of “intelligently defending yourself” being a stoppage criteria. If you are not offering some form of defense the ref can call a halt to the action. It doesn’t matter if you are capable of continuing or not. A lot of people have EXC flack for how much leeway they gave Kimbo in that regard in the thompson match up. So again, that provides grounds for a stoppage.
I think with most of the people who are making an issue out of this instance, it’s a case of sour grapes. But that is not to say that their point is inarguable. There is a case there. As i said i’m indifferent to it. I think whichever choice the ref made at that point, it would have been borderline.
The referee gave him his warnings, declared Brock was fine and he came back to win. I just don’t see why people have troubles grasping that. We have proof that he absolutely wasn’t finished. That point is clear. Not every fight is to be ref’d the same. 10 shots in a row might hurt someone and not hurt another. That’s why the human element is there. And why do we know Brock wasn’t done? Because he tooled the more broken down fighter 60 seconds later.