Thoughts On Pacquiao, Mayweather, And HGH
The big story in boxing today is Manny Pacquiao’s supposed refusal to adhere to “US Olympic” style drug testing which includes frequent blood and urine testing. It was the last thing Floyd Mayweather’s camp wanted in negotiations for their March 13 fight. If you believe what these guys are saying, that fight is now in jeopardy.
And this came after they had just about worked out everything, including a ludicrous penalty of $10 million for every pound each fighter weighed in at over the welterweight limit.
Believe me when I say that everyone has something on this story. Look here (SI), here (Max Boxing), here (Iole), here (Rafael), and even here (Meltzer). Even Stevie J at Angrymarks wrote about it and he barely ever covers boxing. I’m still waiting for my main man Tim Starks to give his thoughts on the story. Oh, it’s up now.
The reporting has been stellar, with quotes from Bob Arum, Freddie Roach, Golden Boy, Mayweather Promotions, and anyone else with an opinion. Well, here are mine.
Why is there even a commission for this fight if we can make up the rules as we go?
If the Nevada State Athletic Commission is going to be ruling this fight, why does Mayweather’s camp get to rule on the drug testing? If the idea is that Mayweather wants clear cut evidence that Manny Pacquiao isn’t taking performance enhancing drugs, he’s never going to get it. Drug testing isn’t 100% fool proof. If he wants a good idea, I would stress for more urine analysis and if Manny is ok with some blood work, call it even. I’d be far more worried about a fighter on steroids than a fighter on HGH.
Are we even sure HGH is going to help a boxer?
Here’s what the Mayo Clinic website says about HGH:
Although it appears that human growth hormone injections can increase muscle mass and reduce the amount of body fat in healthy older adults, the increase in muscle doesn’t translate into increased strength. In fact, researchers have found that strength training is a cheaper, more effective way to increase muscle mass and strength.
Will HGH more than likely make someone look more ripped? Looks like it. But will it help in strength growth like testosterone will? It doesn’t seem as likely. So what’s the worry here? If an athlete was taking HGH, it might help him with stamina which would help in training, and also might help him recover more quickly, which would also help in training, but we’re not sure. What we are sure is that synthetic testosterone does help with that. So let’s test harder for testosterone since we don’t know enough about HGH. Have both fighters go through daily urine tests. That would probably be enough.
It’s silly to ask Manny to have his blood drawn 48 hours before the fight.
When anyone gets their blood drawn, the nurse will always tell you to relax and not do anything strenuous. So why, if this is going to be the greatest contest between two athletes that we’ll see all year long, are we even going to want to risk either man drawing blood from their bodies even two days before the fight? Does that even seem half smart to anyone?
Even if the goal was to catch someone using HGH, I don’t think the technology is smart enough.
Let’s say there is even a reason to want to test someone for HGH. Are the tests even smart enough? And if they were, wouldn’t there be many more failures at the Olympics? If we use the steroid comparison and say that in the mid 2000s, 40% of baseball players were probably taking some form of synthetic testosterone, you’re telling me that in the 2004 Olympics, Olympic athletes, who seem to have just as much to gain as anyone, weren’t even half guilty as baseball players? I don’t believe that for one second. The tests simply didn’t work. Do you remember anyone failing for HGH at the Olympics?
Where’s the proof that we should be worried about Pacquiao?
If Mayweather’s camp had any small proof that Pacquiao was taking performance enhancing drugs, then by all means, Mayweather should have major issues with trusting Pacquiao. But let’s face it; drug testing has been compared to an IQ test. If you’re stupid, you fail.
But without any sort of proof, other than Floyd Sr. looking at Pacquiao’s body (and has Floyd Sr. looked in the mirror lately, dude himself is ripped), I just don’t buy it. Pacquiao’s camp has said that they don’t mind more stringent urine analysis. Take that as a win and let’s get this fight going.
This kind of stuff has to irk fight fans. Someone needs to provide leadership and be a mediator and get this thing done. You can’t tease and tease and tease the boxing fans and then not deliver. If this fight doesn’t happen, boxing will suffer because its fans will suffer. You can’t sell me Mayweather vs. Mosley or Pacquiao vs. some jabroni of the month after teasing this fight for the last couple months. That’s like serving me flank steak after I ordered fillet mignon.
On the whole “dont have blood drawn before doing something strenuous” – its not like they are taking a PINT like a blood donor – its a small vial… A trivial amount – seems quite smart to me and would not affect either fighter.
To say “researchers have found that strength training is a cheaper, more effective way to increase muscle mass and strength” doesnt mean that HGH does not work at all. Even if it is a small advantage with the level of competition we are going to witness -any- little bit helps.
Im on Mayweathers side on this one – and frankly am quite surprised that Manny is ducking this…. Doesnt bode well….
We don’t know how much blood is being drawn and if these guys are as meticulous with their bodies as we think they are, tinkering with anyone’s blood isn’t smart to me.
I’m not saying HGH doesn’t work. I’m saying we don’t know if it works or not. So why not just go with what we know? Mayweather is basing this on the premise that 1) you can actually catch someone on HGH and 2) that HGH even helps.
I don’t like assuming people are guilty and must be proven innocent. Maybe that’s just me. If Pac failed a drug test before, fine. If May has some inside stuff on a mark doctor that Pac sees. Fine. But where’s his proof? Floyd Sr. and Roger? Ha!
Good points…
The thing that bothers me (and I guess most people) is the ‘where there is smoke there’s fire’ – Pacmans (apparent at this point) refusal to more rigorous testing is fishy…
You know why that is? It’s because as sports fans, we’ve learned to react this way.
Do I wonder if Pac is on roids? Sure, just like any other athlete, May included. So this is May’s way of strong arming Pac into making him prove that he’s straight?
The thing is, blood testing in this way isn’t normal. It’s like testing rats. Make the guy piss every day. More than likely, you’re not catching folks taking HGH as it is.
I think it’s truly Mayweather more screwing with Pacquiao making it a lose/lose for Pac than anything else. I can’t believe people are taking Mayweather’s side on this. We’re believing Money May here?
I agree wholeheartedly with your article. In fact I read that Team Pac is willing to test 3 days before the fight and right after. So if the goal is to make sure there is no cheating, the test right after the fight would catch anything suspicious going on.
Well, it wouldn’t necessarily catch anything, because again, I don’t think these HGH tests even work well. But the point is, Team Pac is willing to work with Mayweather. It’s not like they simply said no. I do hope these guys work together and get this fight going though.
Pac man needs to stop this, he’s making himself look very bad to
the sports world and to boxing. There’s an old saying, there is
nothing to fear but fear it’s self. Take the tests and make the
fight happen. If Pac man is doing things cleanly then why all the
drama??? Stop all the B.S. because it’s starting to sound like
Freddie and Pac Man are covering their asses. Cheaters never
prosper.
It’s so odd to me that people think that Pacman needs to prove that he’s not a cheater even though he’s never failed a drug test. Look at the precedent it could set. Why wouldn’t someone ask Shane Mosley to do the same thing before every fight now? Unless the NSAC decides this is something they want to do full time, I don’t see why it has to be instituted now.
I totally expected more people to think that it was Mayweather’s way of trying to get out of the fight. But I guessed wrong here.
you sure did If your clean then there should be no problems.
But if he’s clean and he’s never failed a test before, he now has to further prove himself? Seems a little Draconian to me and sleazy on May’s part.
Mayweather comes from a boxing family and is not in any way
stupid or born yesterday. He saw the cotto fight and realized that cotto is one hell of a fighter and to see pac man win so
easy started ringing questions in his mind as it did to so many
boxing experts. In my opinion Cotto is way too good a fighter
to lose the way he did to a much smaller and weaker fighter like pac
man. Something is very wrong here. People who are at peace
with themselves would not act like they are hiding something like
Freddie Roach and Pac Man are Doing…They are looking bad
very bad.
Something is up, for Pac Man to walk away from a possible
40million dollar match with Mayweather Jr. over a blood test???
Some boxers would come to the fight and take a fall in order to
make that type of money. Pac Man is hiding something from
us???????????????????????? I wonder…………….
40 million, wow I’d eat Dog poop if they asked me to, a blood test
would not be an issue I’d give them my hair, spit, blood, urine my
left arm you see where I’m getting at….. Pac Man is looking very
bad for hiding from a simple test when there is so much money to
be made. No blood=No money=No Respect from me or The Sports
World.
Dave at this point it’s all about principle. Are you going to subject yourself to being treated as a cheater when you’ve never been shown to be one? Would you stop and prove yourself to everyone that accuses you of wrongdoing? No because it would be ridiculous. Pacquiaos camp has no problem taking a drug test immediately after the fight. Drug use and timing isn’t so scientific that you can map out to the hour when it would be out of your system. The human body has way too many variables. It’s up to Mayweather and his camp to accept the fight now.
Hahahahaha… well done Pacquiao … no need for you to follow those stupid requests … Hey Mayweather, say goodbye to $50M payday, you dumbass.
I agree with you @King. It’s Mayweather who needs the money. Pacuquiai is already a Billionaire (in Pesos) in the Phillipines. He’s now living a very comfortable life.
Hey … is this a Mayweather sponsored website? why remove my comment? … I only said well done Pacquiao and Mayweather should say goodbye to $50M payday.
@Dave,
What is the difference from a blood test drawn 30 days before and immediately after the fight and the blood drawn a day or two before fight? Absolutely nothing!!! If an athlete is using steroids, a 30-day interval will not hide it from the test. If Pacquiao is hiding something he should not agree letting his blood drawn before and after the fight in the first place. You ask the same question to Mayweather too why walking away from 40 million dollar match with Pacquiao beacause of this totally irrelevant test. This is Mayweather sneaky and obvious demand just to duck the fight. As Roach said, Mayweather is a coward and I agree. Cherry picking inferior opponents and ducking the best to protect the zero records Mayweather is.. considering this development. Dump the Nevada Commission if people don’t respect and believe the test they conducted in every athletes.
First and foremost, I have heard of fighters failing drug tests at the Olympics before, but the number is very few and far-between.
Secondly, to apply that this is a way out for Mayweather is stupid and completely far-fetched. Why would a guy commit to a fight of this magnitude just to play games? This is his biggest fight and will propel him to the top forever if he wins, well at least it should.
GG, it sounds like your blaming Floyd’s camp because Manny’s camp hasnt jumped in the boat completely. This is on Manny, not Floyd!
A vial of blood is not going to do any substantial damage and most likely will have no affect whatsoever for either fighter if they are both clean. Freddie Roach and his statements, if you were to follow them and place them in order, are contradictory.
He told ESPN that he and Manny have no problem with taking any test they want to give. Well, if thats truly the case, then do it already and finish the deal. Sounds like Roach and Manny are the ones that want “wiggle room”.
If this fight doesnt happen because of drug tests, then it falls solely on Pacquiao because it is completely fair to have the test in the first place. No one wants to spend they’re hard earned money and then find out that it wasnt a fair fight.
Now, that being said, I dont think it’s fair or right for Mayweather sr.’s to call out Pacquiao with no proof, however, that does not mean that this wouldnt have been in the deal if Big Floyd kept his opinion to himself.
You know why you dont know if HGH testing works?? Because when it was used, for baseball players, they covered up the results!!!!!!
And another reason is: The Nevada Boxing Commision doesnt draw blood!!!!!
If you take HGH, it will be in your blood. Do some research to actually find the truth not just to support your opinion because you dont want to be wrong….idiots!!!!
GG, your not logically thinking this through. Drawing blood and testing for HGH does work. How do you think they caught A-rod???????????
You are totally bias and it shows. You are definitely pro-Pac to the point where anything that happens is Floyd’s fault. So obvious!
Nick, Nick, Nick. A-Rod wasn’t caught taking HGH. A-Rod failed a steroid test. And this was before they even had legit testing in place. He failed a roid test that was only for the league to see what percentage of their guys were failing and was never to be published. You gotta get you facts straight man.
And I’m a Floyd fan. I’m a huge Floyd fan. I just think he’s manipulating the game right now.
“You know why you dont know if HGH testing works?? Because when it was used, for baseball players, they covered up the results!!!!!!”
Nick, the MLB doesn’t test for HGH. They don’t even draw blood.
“And another reason is: The Nevada Boxing Commision doesnt draw blood!!!!!”
Show me a commission that does. WWE doesn’t even test for HGH. The NFL doesn’t test for HGH.
“If you take HGH, it will be in your blood. Do some research to actually find the truth not just to support your opinion because you dont want to be wrong….idiots!!!!””
I’ve done my research bro. Even if you test HGH, there’s no conclusive evidence that you’re catching anyone on HGH. This is why I made the Olympics example. Don’t you think that if a test really worked, we’d have seen massive failures in 2004 and 2008?
“Why would a guy commit to a fight of this magnitude just to play games? This is his biggest fight and will propel him to the top forever if he wins, well at least it should.”
This is Floyd Mayweather right? This is the guy who specifically fought a smaller guy in Marquez, and then showed up over weight. He didn’t cut the weight. He paid off the weight. Yep, it’s the same guy.
“If this fight doesnt happen because of drug tests, then it falls solely on Pacquiao because it is completely fair to have the test in the first place. No one wants to spend they’re hard earned money and then find out that it wasnt a fair fight.”
What it is is manipulation. Show me a previous fight that has instituted Olympic style testing. Show me proof that Manny has ever failed a drug test. Show me proof that using HGH is going to help a fighter. Without proof of those things, it’s just Floyd’s camp being jerks.
“Now, that being said, I dont think it’s fair or right for Mayweather sr.’s to call out Pacquiao with no proof, however, that does not mean that this wouldnt have been in the deal if Big Floyd kept his opinion to himself.”
Floyd Sr. has a right to his own opinion. But without proof, it’s just his opinion, much like the opinion he had that Ricky Hatton could beat Manny. He was wrong there.
Hey Rafael,
I know you sent this towards Dave, but I wanted to answer it.
The reason the Olympics test more frequently is because HGH doesn’t stay in your system very long. It’s very hard to prove and catch. The way the NSAC does steroid testing is on a schedule that can be easily beaten as well. If an athlete is doing steroids and he knows exactly when he’s being tested, you can time it as to when you need to get off and not fail the test.
GG
No one is removing your comments Ramon. I just have to approve them all.
Hey Chris,
But it’s not a simple test. It’s actually a pretty intrusive test, which is why only the Olympics institutes it. The players associations in the big leagues would never allow it because it’s so intrusive.
Hey guys,
Whether we agree on this issue or not isn’t the point. The point is that this is a hot topic and people have their opinions, which I respect.
Keep them coming. This is a great discussion. And I’m not saying I’m in the right here. It’s just my opinion on the situation.
GG
Welcome to FGB! Please come back kind folks!
It is sad that we are conditioned to expect that freak physical performance these days = drugs… But it is true. So lets be frank.
My final points:
1. If Pacman would for some reason refuse the fight over a drug test (and give up 40 million in the process) that Pretty Boy IS willing to take then his credibility and legacy will be shot. I cant believe im even saying this.
2. “Why go through such measures? What other fights / leagues are doing this?” – This is the fight of the decade – and in our tainted day and age if there is anyway to be -more sure- about the validity of the outcome I say go for it. It isnt other fights – this is ‘our Olympics’.
3. Forget that its Roger Mayweather et al starting this and just look at the facts – Manny just might be the insane physical specimen that comes along once in a generation – or he could be a cheat. Read “A Game of Shadows” for an inside look at the designer steroid market and some in depth analysis of what is going on at the Olympic level (where they dont even get paid) and imagine what 40 million would make you try….
Hey doctoro,
I hope they aren’t your final points. Just because I’m defending mine, doesn’t mean that mine are what everyone else is thinking. I like all the contrarian views. It tells me what people are really thinking.
1. In the public eye, I think you’re right.
2. I’d agree with you, if and only if, we have any proof or feeling that Pac is dirty. It’s actually the opposite. Pac is so loved that people wouldn’t believe it. I’m not in that camp. I’m in the camp that thinks many great athletes are probably taking something. But I have no proof. That’s why I think Floyd is doing this. He wants to be the bad guy to Pac’s good guy. He wants to dent that reputation a bit.
3. I totally agree with that view point. However, we can’t just test athletes like we do rats. It’s inhuman. And plus, none of these blood tests would catch designer drugs. So maybe that’s why Floyd doesn’t mind taking those tests? See what I did there? You could turn this whole thing on Floyd too. This is why I don’t think it’s necessary.
Great thoughts doctoro!
Thanks this has been an interesting conversation – oh, and a huge one I left off:
4. Floyd might just be trying to: get in Pacman’s head, get more publicity for the fight, just being a jerk for the fun of it…. I wouldnt put ANY of those past him 😉
Im in neither camp… Keep going back and forth on my predictions… I just think this fight is going to be fantastic and cant wait. Im living in China again and its def going to be one of my ‘wake up early as hell, blow off work / whatever for the day, and find a place to drink and scream with some like minded pals’
Cant effin wait.
Yep, and Floyd is doing his job in building up this fight. It’s just another layer added to make it bigger.
I just hope it doesn’t end because of it.
I have to agree GG, after pacman passing all of the tests required of him there is no proof of him taking anything!!! I am a fan of both fighters but to actually accuse someone of cheating who never failed one test is rediculous!!! Mayweathers camp needs to watch pacmans boxing skills improve on every fight (which im sure they have and the reason for all this crap they’re pulling). The reason why pacman is so good is because he has a good coach and he actually listens to him. Pacman lost to Morales because Morales knew he didn’t have a right hand…what does pacmans camp do? What does Roach do? He develops a knock out punching right hand. Now pacman has two knock out weapons which makes him that much more dangerous and his fights look easy! I’m sure all of you boxing fans know this but I’m just reminding you because it seems like mayweathers camp’s BS talks are making you forget why pacman is so good. Not because he takes anything its because he trains hard and has a great coach that prepares him.
As for the Mayweathers, I cant say he’s trying to duct out of the fight but I can say I expect this from both the father and son. They love to talk and I’m expecting the worse so this is no surprise to me that they would pull something like this.
It could also entirely be hype for the fight, but we won’t know unless they really do halt the fight because of the drug testing stuff.
Seems like more of a publicity stunt to build the fight and build in an excuse if Floyd loses. I have to believe that if Manny refuses, Floyd won’t leave all that money on the table. He will take the fight anyway, but he’s now got something to fall back on and claim foul if Manny beats him. That leads to the rematch and the blood tests for Pac vs. May II. Smart, Money, very smart.
I like the way you think Cactus Jim, with your billfold.
GG Floyd wanted to set up the fight between him and Pac Mayweather only fought Marquez because he is the only fighter that actually beat Pac very recently(even though judges gave it to Pac) Floyd has grown into a natural welterweight now(32 yr. old) so to ask him to fight at lower, uncomfortable weight is stupid. Look what happened to Delahoya. The weight Floyd came in at is the weight he is comfortable fighting at. On fight night he was probly 154lbs. Now Pac came in at 152 against Delahoya on fight night…When May fought Delahoya it was a 154lb limit.Delahoya probly was at 160 strong. May came in at 152…so things are gonna be pretty fair when Mayweather and Pac meet at 147. Both fighters will be fighting at a weight they feel comfortable. Draining your body before a grueling bpxing match is just stupid. Fighters agree to do this when they negotiate out of weakness. Or maybe they underestimate a smaller fighter. AS far as this testing business…How does a grown man, a professional athlete, a champion walk away from this challenge and $50 million cause you don’t want 1 teaspoon of blood drawn 48 hrs before the fight? This only would make me more concerned if I were Mayweather. May agreed to pay $10 mill for every pound over 147. Pac’s concerns have been alleviated, but what about Mayweather’s? Bottom line, even if it is dirty tactics…it is check mate because now EVERYBODY wants to know if dude is clean. Learn from Tiger and nip this in the bud. It is an insult to consider fighting Paulie M or Yuri Foreman. That just makes Pac look weak. NOBODY can beat Floyd, NOBODY.
Hey Jason,
Thanks for adding your thoughts.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it here; I’m a huge May fan. I like Pac, but I’m a much bigger May fan. Thus, what I wrote has nothing to do with me liking a fighter better.
I understand what you’re talking about when it comes to weigh limits, but why sign up to fight at a certain weight and then not make the weight? Mayweather agreed to that limit, so it’s not anyone’s fault, but his own.
May has definitely put Pac in the “check mate” position. And yep, it’s definitely by dirty tactics.
GG
GG WE know boxing is a dirty game… so don’t hate the player. Freddie Roach and Arum have been the ones swearing Floyd is scared, spreading rumors about Floyd wanting a 154lb fight(even after 147 had already been agreed upon) They’ve been changing fight dates on Floyd. They seem to be out of their league with the Mayweathers. AS far as the 2lbs. and the $600,000 To be honest Floyd was the big name. Marquez was lucky to play a small part in Floyd’s scheme to get to Manny. In other words Floyd never intended to drop that weight. It was the biggest payday of Marquez’ career, I doubt he will ever top that. So it is what it is. Floyd knows the game. He was 2lbs over(not much) He paid the penalty and the fight continued. Marquez would never cancel the fight in a million years. He and Nacho said it themselves…”Mayweather is the best boxer in the world.” But you will never see him under 146 period. That was a clinic by the way huh GG. Multi million dollar sparring session.
Yep, Marquez couldn’t touch him.
But you can see where the dishonesty with Floyd lies. To come in at 2 pounds over and not even care about it. He chose Marquez for a few reasons, but you’re right, he was the draw.
Again, I’m not hating on Floyd. I just think there are better ways to work this out than to throw your opponent under the bus. Build him up so it means something when you beat him.
Marquez is a helluva fighter, unfortunately Floyd made him look bad in the fight other than showing ability to sustain punishment. Nobody needs to build Pac up. Every where you look, Pac is everywhere. Boxing is mental and it is a form of war per say. Therefore there is no need to kiss Manny’s behind. Cotto has problems mentally after Margaritto. Cotto was real consumed with weight for some reason. Roach even mentioned/antagonized Cotto about it before the fight. At the weigh in Cotto and Ariza made a big deal…just cause he made weight. WTF. Meanwhile Pac eating as much as he likes every day, having great workouts…increasing stamina. That’s how you do it. I can work out for hrs without eating but afterwards …I gotta eat. So to me Team Pac is getting a taste of THEIR OWN MEDICINE. Roach learned that when he trained Delahoya. Honesty? Floyd will be clean, and he will be ready to honestly see who is the better man come March 13. I think you know who I believe that is. Oh I think Pac is a great fighter by the way.
I’m not even a boxing fan and this pisses me off.
I think Mayweather needs to get out of his fantasy world and start worrying about the real problem here….it’s not illegal drugs….its fighting a machine like PAC. The Mayweathers just can’t believe his power, speed, and skills so the gotta blame it on drugs. There is literally not one piece of evidence that says PAC is cheating so until there is just chiiiilllllllll
I hope that we have some sort of conclusion soon here. And I agree, there’s no precedent that Pac is doing anything wrong.
A lot of great commentary on this issue from both sides. Good to see for once some logical, intelligent comments, rather than the usual banter from fanatics. And that’s fanatics from both sides.
Yep, agreed 2nPac. Supposedly, there’s a deadline set for tomorrow.
It looks bad for PAC MAN and I’ll tell you why, If he does not take the test given by USADA (United States Anti Doping
Agency) The Gold Standard of all Drug testing in the world he’s finished. The
reason for random Drug testing is so the Athlete can’t study for the test!!! Pac Man can still save face even though I feel he’s cheated himself and the sweet science many times before.
EX: (Ricky Hatton)(De la Hoya) now (Cotto). Remember, when an athlete wins you want to know in your heart you won fair
and square.
Pac Man can not say this because look at what he is doing. Running from a drug test of the highest standards.
In this world and by God we are all judged by what we do, it’s
that simple. Oh, by the way, Pac man loses credibilty if he
walks out on this fight not Mayweather. In the eyes of the
sports world Pac Man will never be respected again and will
always have the dark cloud of HGH over him and his career I
promise you that much.
You might be right about that.
What is going on in the world??? everybody is trying to buck the system in regards to fairness. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong!!!
there’s no inbetweens. My comment for all of you is you can run but you can’t hide from truth. You know Truth something that
people always TRY to hide from. I know if you all here at this forum think about what I’ve written you will see that I’m right.
Even if your a pac man fan. Think about it, and remember as men/women we all must face the music when we are wrong admitting is the first step to getting right with ourselves and God.
My issue isn’t with fairness. It’s with the mentality that we all have to prove innocence rather than give people the benefit of the doubt.
When I worked in radio, I had to take a drug test. If all of a sudden, I was used as a guinea pig and had to draw blood and make sure I wasn’t taking any kind of chemicals, and this was a test that no one before me had to take, I would’ve quit. Not because I wouldn’t have passed, because I would’ve passed with flying colors. But just based on principle alone.
Please, spare me, do you know how many people try to cheat the system everyday??? Rules and Laws are what seperate us from animals. Without regulations the world would crumble and we become cavemen all over again. Your smarter than that you know exactly what I meant. Remember, we all everyday are put to the test in one way or another in life. Honesty has always been the best mentality we should all maintain.
that will be all for now i rest my case.
Wait, but doesn’t the commission already regulate the sport? There are already rules in place. This isn’t about rules. This is about making special accommodations to make someone look bad, not about being “fair”.
“This isn’t about rules. This is about making special accommodations to make someone look bad, not about being “fair”.
Thankyou for proving my point. You don’t care about fairness or honesty your comments above say it all. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Pac Man can not run from truth anymore.
Ha! That’s not what I’m saying.
What I’m saying is that we already have rules in place for this very reason. The Nevada State Athletic Commission already tests for drugs.
I’m saying on Floyd’s end, I don’t think he cares about the rules. What he cares about is making Pac look bad. Floyd couldn’t care less about the actual testing of drugs. He just wants to make Pac feel uncomfortable.
That’s my point.
Espn is making me laugh now at the Pac Man scandle, its said that Pac Man is scared of needles yet he was fearless to get all
the tatoos on his body. Do You smell cover up. And the hits just keep on coming : ) unbelievable, the Pac Man camp should shut
their mouths before futher damage is done. My advice to them, hire a lier, I mean lawyer to help Pac Man. Trust me he needs one right about now. Such Stupidity.
Pac feel uncomfortable??? He is doing that to himself because hopefully you get it this time, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG. If Pac Man was doing this right in his life he would not feel uncomfortable, would he now??? Think it over, use your mind.
Come on Dave. You can sit on your pedestal and be judgmental about what people do in their lives. That’s fine. It’s your opinion. But to tell people to use their mind when they are having a pretty good back and forth with you is a little disrespectful.
However, what makes you think that Pac is cheating simply because he doesn’t want to concede to Mayweather’s forceful rules? Have you seen what Pac eats? Have you watched what Pac drinks? Do you have proof that he takes anything?
If not, your opinion is simply your opinion and not the rule.
Sorry if you took it like I was disrespectful to you in any way. And just for the record, I’m not perfect nor do I put myself on any
pedestal. So don’t percieve in any way that I’m better than you or you better then me. My judgement of Pac Man is VERY VERY Clear
and I didin’t mix any words about his situation. Pac Man’s Actions speak louder than words. That brings me to my choice to think
and use my mind, you like that, play on words, to believe Pac Man
is Hiding something from us. You don’t need a degree from Harvard on this one. Remember, nothing is written in stone for
Pac Man. He just might for the sake of his career and image do the honest thing for once and take the (USADA) drug test.
Then TRY to beat Mayweather the fair way, the RIGHT way. That’s All I have to say on this Pac Man Three ring Circus drama.
Oh, Merry Christmas, Hopefully 2010 Brings us great HGH free Boxing action. Take it easy
Ok, that last part cracked me up.
And I know I don’t have to say this but I am in no way saying that there isn’t a way that Pac is dirty. He may be. I just don’t like Mayweather’s tact in handling this.
I’m very much coming around to the idea that the drug testing should be more stringent just because of the magnitude of the fight. I wasn’t quite there last night.
I just think it’s a little weasely the way it’s been handled.
Yeah weasely or not it strikes me that Mayweather Sr. is one of those old timers who has seen it all since he was a fighter in the
80’s and won’t let his cheese out in the wind and allow his son to
be cheated on. My guess is that you would have to wake up early in the morning to fool Floyd Sr. or Floyd Jr. I am very happy to
also read that you coming around to the idea that the drug testing should be more stringent just because of the magnitude of the fight.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Did Ali have his blood drawn Olympic style when he beat foreman? Or when Hagler beat Hearns? Magnitude my ass
scratch that last sentence, GG. It was inappropriate
No, you have a point. But the counter point to that is that the drug culture is a million times more intense now than it was back then. The rules have changed because of it. I still don’t think anyone is going to be caught using HGH. Just look at the Olympics for these last two. Did we hear of any failures?
Maybe so, GG. But regardless, these are all just opinions. A Mayweather fan will always feel he has a right to demand more than what the rules require. A Pacquiao fan will always think it is a ridiculous demand meant to play with their man’s head. There is nothing scientific about it. That’s why we have commissions to make a decision. If the commission believes that urine tests are now inadequate, then by all means they should change the rules. But it is unfair to apply different rules for different fights on the basis of “magnitude” because one belt should be as deserving as another, and as Dave points out Right is Right and Wrong is wrong. But right now, what is right is to follow what is the rule. All the rest are just opinions and opinions should not be allowed to overrule the rule.
But the issue is, it’s not about the belt. It’s about money and the title of best fighter. The belt is meaningless here.
And this site (and other blogs) is simply built off our opinions, so I know that just as much as anyone. And yours is definitely justified.
My friend Tim Starks (I linked his blog in this post) countered my original point about commissions by saying that fighters rule over the commissions all the time with glove sizes, ring sizes, and other things of that nature, so this isn’t as uncommon as I originally thought.
I see your point GG. But is that a good thing or a bad thing? I dont know much about the sport to render an opinion, but logic tells me any sport must be properly regulated to be fair. Otherwise, what’s the point of having commissions if fighters are allowed to rule over it.
As to this site being built off opinions (kudos to you on how you are responding to them too), I did not mean we should stop giving our opinions in forums like this. What i meant is that an entity who has the scientific knowledge about the issue must ultimately decide on it.
In a perfect world, I believe the commissions would be at the forefront and that testing would be strenuous and legitimate. But they obviously aren’t.
Think about this – not all drug testing is random. There are types of drug testing that are scheduled and thus, easy to figure out when one needs to get stuff out of their system.
I’m all for giving the commissions everything they need to make sure sports are legitimate. But when you have bad chemists making drugs that the good chemists can’t spot, I’m not sure that’s ever going to happen.
Hate to say this, GG. But with that kind of opinion, everything is suspect and any great feat will, in your mind, have a question mark in it. The bad triumphing over the good? I’m not sure i want to go where your going on that. Say we do go to random testing, how do you know if there is a drug out there that is totally undetectable even with random testing? The cynic will always find something to ask.
I know its not a perfect world, but so are governments, juries and yes, commissions are human too. If you lose your trust in the system because of what bad people are capable of doing, you have given up on the human race.
But to me, these feats don’t necessarily have a question mark on them. To me, Barry Bonds is the home run king no matter if he took steroids or not. There’s a good chance that the pitchers pitching to him were taking them to. But he still had to hit the baseball.
This is exactly what the entire Balco trial was about. Victor Conte and his company were making steroids that were undetectable, the cream and the clear. These guys wouldn’t have failed any kind of steroid test.
Thankfully, there is random drug testing. The only way to get the cheaters (if that’s what you want) is to think like the cheaters and beat them at their own game. But like I said, the chemists making these drugs are a step ahead of the chemists who are finding ways to test for these drugs.
I’m not being Draconian on you at all. I’m just giving you the reality of the situation as it currently exists. It’s not impossible. It’s just a lot of work.
A lot of people, including me, do not share your opinion on Barry Bonds. But then again, it’s my opinion against yours. Your reality against mine.
It is precisely because we have different takes on reality that we need a system of rules governed by a given entity, albeit not infallible. It is precisely because it is not a perfect world, that we need governments, juries and commissions to make the call.
Look at the original post I made. I’m not against you on this. I think the commission should be in charge of this drug testing issue. That was one of my four or five original points.
I’m just saying they won’t step up to the table and do it. It’s too expensive to have every sport as deeply intrusive with their drug testing as the Olympics. Or at least that’s the excuse they’ll give you.
I did read your original post and loved it, GG. I even shared it with friends who are boxing aficionados. I didnt think you disagreed with me on the main issues, just some minor ones, e.g. the “magnitude” issue which you and Dave seemed to agree on, but to which i disagreed.
It was very enriching for me though, and kudos again for a great forum! Very professional and balanced
Feel free to bring your thoughts and opinions here at any point. All opinions have value as far as I’m concerned. Even ones that I don’t agree with. People bring their A games usually when they come to comment threads.
And happy holidays to everyone as well.
Hey CG, I can see you’ve been at it again on the debate room. Well with all do respect, Gil mentioned the Ali vs Foreman fight from
1974 which is a whole different topic than what the Pac Man situation is. However, I’ll give my Two cents on Ali vs Foreman fight
just to point out some common misunderstandings. Firstly, Ali was in his 30’s and a very intelligent business man where as Foreman
was 24 and easy to anger. Also their fight was in a VERY VERY Hot Africa with over 100 degree weather favoring Ali the lighter
smaller man. If you look at the fight, Foreman was not knocked out because of Ali’s power it was a combination of Heat,
Stamina and speed which ultimately spelled foremans doom in that fight. Not to mention Ali’s intelligence to let foreman punch himself out with the rope a dope tactic.
In my opinion, this is the reason Foreman was never given a rematch in the U.S. where the weather would have not been a factor giving they fought in media Giant Madison Square Garden
where boxers truly become legends and become known through out the whole world. It never happend, Why, because
Ali knew better and realized that New York or any other in door boxing arena in the U.S. was not the 100 plus degree weather that favored him so greatly in Africa.
You know, come to think of it, foreman in my book is the most feared heavy weight just look how tyson stayed away from him as so many others did.
So, lastly Gil, you mentioned that the magnitude of the Pac Man vs Floyd fight didn’t merit the (USADA) United States Anti
Doping Agency Drug test. That it be handled by the commision. Are you crazy, this is a mega fight and it would look be very, very, very dishonest on Pac Man’s part to not take these tests
when Floyd Jr. already has accepted to take all drug tests. How do you think it would look to the sports world and other boxing fans and fighters??? Pac man would look like he is
hiding something and that is not an opinion it’s a fact. No one in their right mind would turn down 40 to 50 million dollars WIN or LOSE unless they were very worried about being caught
doing something they shouldn’t have been doing.
A little humor here, Maybe he is afraid of needles??? even though he has many incriminating tattoos, may be he’s afraid of being caught in the bathroom getting injected by
Roger Clemens….who knows….LOL, I had to lighten the atmosphere in here. Forgive me, it was too easy to make that one up.
Merry Christmas to all, wishing all good tidings and joy.
I have no problem using random drug testing for professional boxing fights. The problem is that NSAC does not require it right now. If Money wants it then GBP should ask NSAC to change their test protocols. As it is, they want just a one off “Olympic style” just for this one bout. And use NSAC rules for the rest? Are you kidding me? You just want to show one clean boxing match? GBP even balks at having Mosley to submit for a blood test for a possible Judah fight last year, saying the NSAC tests are good enough (Judah ask for a blood test to prove that Shane is clean). At least Judah has a case since Mosley was caught before. Right now, Pac is being singled out for random testing while all the others are ok. Actually, Pac has offered to meet Money half way. The latest offer is that random testing is ok but no test 2 days before fight night (if what I’m reading in the news are reliable). My take is Pac has compromised enough already even though I feel he should walk away on principle.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Well said and happy holidays.
Hey Dave, You can give me a litany about the weather, the climate, anger management and everything else about how it would affect a fight and you could play commissioner yourself by making your own decision as to who should do the drug testing but you are neither a psychologist, environmentalist nor a boxing commissioner to have the right to claim anything as being the sure reason why someone loses or wins. If you think everyone else is stupid because they don’t agree with your idea of money vs principle, i am glad i am not your son. Your jokes apparently prove you have already convicted pacman as a drug taker, I hope you are not a lawyer either.
couldn’t have said it better than that, Berto7. Thanks for a post that makes a lot more sense
Does anything think that Manny actually is sincere when he fears that giving blood 2 days before will affect him?
I actually feel the same way. Doing a blood test makes me feel weak. I know it’s psychological, but that’s neither here nor there. Oh, and I don’t mind being injected, it’s getting blood removed that I hate, so there isn’t necessarily a contradition with Manny having all the tattoos.
I think it’s psychological and could affect Manny, especially if they’re being truthful that the last time he did it he lost.
Still on Dave’s “No one in their right mind would turn down 40 to 50 million dollars WIN or LOSE unless they were very worried about being caught doing something they shouldn’t have been doing”
Granted for the sake of argument that Manny took drugs before, do you think he would be stupid to take it again during the random testing if he agreed to it? So if he is not that stupid, what he will lose is just his edge due to the supposed HGH, right? He might still win though even without the HGH that you claim he uses, right? So by your logic, it shouldnt matter if he was taking it before or not since by your argument, no one in his right mind walks away from 40 mil, WIN or LOSE.
Ergo, this is not about the money for Manny. You are also forgetting that Money Gayweather will lose his 40 mil too, not just Manny. And by the looks of it, he needs the money more. So who’s playing mind games with whom now?
WOW, Gil and berto both talk about principle and yet don’t understand that when you have nothing to hide you have nothing to hide period. That goes for life in general. I’m not going to go
into why I feel Pac Man is a cheater because apperently we will never find out since Pac man is probably going to walk away from
the test and not take the match with Mayweather Jr. This sends a loud message about Pac Man doesn’t it???
Oh, by the way GIL, don’t ever put words in my mouth, I never said anyone was stupid if they didn’t think or use their mind the way I do. We all think differently, it’s what makes us all different. And
your right I’m glad your not my son either, because I’d of thought him some manner’s by now with the sting of my belt. Another thing, if you can’t take a joke especially the kind I told
then you really are a Pac Man fan and will only judge boxing in the standards which favor your man and not here’s that word again the PRINCIPLE of fighting a fair fight.
Lastly, the blood test which would be conducted 48 hours berfore the fight would only require a vial of blood from Pac Man not a pint of blood. A vial of blood in no way can make you weak for a fight.
A vial is not a Pint of blood, humans recuperate blood loss by the fluid we drink and food we eat with in hours. So, a vial of blood is easily recuperated in our bodies very quickly.
I’m not a doctor, but I’ve had my fair share of blood exams so this is not an opinion it is my experience. My conclusion is that an opinion is an opinion please, I hope no one gets their
feelings hurt by what I write because I believe in a world of absolutes you know if you jump off the Brooklyn bridge you will die absolutely. Any way that’s my take on things here, peace.
I don’t see a stampede of boxers jumping on the “Olympic style” drug testing for boxing matches bandwagon. If it is true that these tests are not a big deal, you wonder why it has not been instituted a long time ago. But I know why. They’re intrusive and a pain in the ass (or for the arm). Don’t tell me that GBP from now on will insist on random tests for their fights. And even voluntarily submit their fighters for random testing. Do you actually see that happening? The last Money bout with Marques used the normal NSAC tests. And they did not complain. They believe that it is good enough. Now for Pac, all of a sudden, these tests are not good enough and must be more stringent. Fine, but make it a requirement for all bouts from now on. Pac is feeling that he is being targeted. If NSAC makes random testing mandatory then Pac should abide by it, otherwise he can’t fight. It is no sportmanship when Pac fights are the only one that has to do it.
Gil your right it’s not about money. Floyd and Manny are rich, it’s about image and how do you think Pac Man looks by not taking tests that all elite athlete take with no problem???
Sportsmanship goes hand in hand with fairness too.
Dave, you did not address the points I made. You’re only point is if Pac has nothing to hide then he should submit to random testing since they’re very easy and not a big deal. You know what, answer this: Last year, Judah ask for a blood test for Mosley and GBP objected saying NSAC tests are good enough. Judah is not even asking for random test, just a simple blood test. And yet they refused. No professional bout have submitted to random testing and I’m not sure if most boxers will like it either. That is the reason why they’re not done even though you might like to think it is not a big deal, no? As I’ve said, show me a boxer who had gone on record to submit to random testing from now on. Voluntarily? You won’t find any. Even Money will not require it if he fights Matt Hatton if this bout falls through. Mark my word.
ESPN writes that Pac Man is going to court over Mayweather Sr. comments on Pac Man probably taking steroids. You know if it is so important for Pac Man to save his public image than why won’t he prove it by passing the drug tests from (USADA)???????????
Makes you think right??????????
Dave, here is my point in simpler terms:
If no one in his right mind can turn down $40mil WIN or LOSE unless he is hiding something, why would I turn it down even if I felt I would lose? See the fallacy in your statement? The randomness of testing will not prove anything except prevent me from taking it during the training anyway. By your logic, there is no unless here. You are simply saying no one in his right mind can turn down $40 mil period.
Your experience in blood exams…hahahaha. Now that one i find funny :)))
Merry Christmas Dave
Well berto, the USADA is a big deal they are the gold standard in PEDs (preformance enhancing Drugs) testing. And judging by what you say about Zab Judah and Mosley it’s more the reason why the (USADA) testing Should be done for the Floyd vs Pac Man fight aswell as many other big time bouts.
Gil, Gil, Gil, there is no fallacy in my logic, simple, if Pac Man is not hiding anything then why all the drama??? You see, there are fighters and people in general who would give their right arm for a
chance, better yet garuneed 40-50million dollars. So, whats the problem with Pac Man???
Now the Money is not just at stake but Pac Mans public image is at stake as well.
Dave, you’re completely missing the point. For me, I have no problem with USADA testing for boxing. But make it mandatory for ALL fights, not just big time bouts. Why single out big time bouts for testing? Isn’t it necessary for smaller bouts as well? Can’t you see the context where this request for USADA testing came from? Do you think Money’s future fights will feature USADA testing from now on? Do you think Money will require, say, Matt Hatton to undergo USADA testing? I don’t think so. That’s the reason why Arum and Pac is furious. They are being singled out!!! Out of all the fights that had been made, and the fights that are being made, the Money – Pac fight will feature USADA testing. All the other bouts will feature the usual NSAC testing. And you call it fair? Do you see Haye demanding Vitaly to undergo USADA? Do you think Vitaly will say, “No problem, easy, no big deal.” ? Have you ever seen a fighter did that? Do you think Money will do USADA testing for his fights from now on? Now, do you understand why Pac is furious on this request? Context is everything. I’m sure you don’t want the police come knocking on your door to check for drugs even though you’re clean and have nothing to fear. Right?
See we can go back and forth all day, but at the end actions speak louder than words and Pac Mans actions with regards to the (USADA) testing will define him as a person and fighter period, that simple.
I agree, Berto, (USADA) testing Should be the given in all bouts I was really paying more attention on the big bouts. Pac Mans case is different in that his refusal to take the test make him look like he has something to hide. Thats why he’s angry. Understand?
Pac Man’s case is also different because what he did in boxing has never been done before by a fighter of his weight class. It naturally will raise questions in the boxing world as to HOW DID PAC MAN DO THIS???
You see now where I’m getting at???
Dave, Dave, Dave, you still don’t get it do you? Read GG’s original post again. Can’t get simpler than that. Berto7 and a host of posts give so many answers to your question too. You just dont agree with them so you keep on asking the same question. You keep on going back and forth that its about the money, and then you say its about the image, and then go back again to the money.
I am telling you, the randomness of the test will not prove anything about Manny’s cleanness or not in the past. At best, it will only prevent him from doing it this time if indeed he took it before. Win or lose, your guy will always find a reason to discredit my man however this comes out. This is his skill at play in mind games. It is time to put a stop to it. And yes, the courts are a good way to do it too.
Dave, I won’t go any futher but answer this simple question: Do you see Money’s future fights feature USADA testing for the sake of level playing field and sportmanship? If the answer is yes then more power to him, he is a good example for other boxers to follow. If the answer is no, then there is no substance on his request for Pac. As you’ve said, actions speak louder than words.
Dave,
Have you heard of the Fifth Amendment? Do you believe in it or are you saying, anyone who takes the Fifth, is bound to be guilty. Must be hiding something. That is what you are saying about this issue. Please, please, dont be so naive!
Your right, Gil, actions speak louder than words I’m glad you chose my line. I’m not a furtune teller so I nor you can say what Floyd or any fighter will do in the future but I’m 100 percent behind the
(USDA) Drug testing and it says a lot about how Pac Man is dealing with this form of testing.
That is why I feel Mayweather Jr. and Sr. have substance on their request for the Drug test by the (USADA).
One more thing Dave:
You say why should he be afraid of needles and drawing blood? Doesnt make sense to you.
Arent some people afraid of ghosts? closed spaces? heights?, etc? Is there any scientific basis to any of those fears? Do you look at someone’s body to see what exactly goes in his mind and say, he’s a body builder, why should he be afraid of anything? Well, some people get heart attacks with the strangest fears and its all in the mind.
You cant understand how any of such fears can outweigh the lust for money or fame. Think again
Gil, your dam right I don’t believe in the fifth amendment, not in Pac Mans case, because I choose to not be naive as others do. We will soon find out by Pac Mans actions what he’s all about.
ehem, Dave. It was Berto7 who used your line, not me. Sorry if we are overwhelming you and getting you confused 🙂
Ok, if you dont believe in the constitution as a basic premise of what is a man’s right and why, then i guess there is no point discussion anything with you.
Merry Christmas to you and your family! 🙂
Once again Gil, your talking faster than you read, go back and read what I wrote. I’ll make it easy for you, getting a tattoo is much more painful than a regular testing needle. Tattoo needles
make you draw blood as well as blood testing needles so obviously Pac Man is not afraid of blood or needles if he has all the tattoos that he has right???
I’m glad Gil, that your finding my writing interesting enough to make trivial corrections. And by the way I can handle you people just fine thank you very much for your concern.
not talking to you anymore…sorry 🙂
Also I believe in all U.S. Amendments however I don’t let people hide behind them either especially when it come to Pac Man and the (USADA) Drug testing matter.
Well people aren’t talking to me here, I guess the truth hurts, ok
Merry Christmas and think about what I wrote it all makes perfect sense. Peace
You guys are crazy going buck wild in the comments section on Christmas day.
Everyone is making salient points and we all simply have different opinions on this issue.
One thing to note – the reason why HGH is so hard to catch is that it’s there and gone so quickly. Thus, if they decide to test them 48 hours before the fight, and then after the fight, there’s a one day window in there to where HGH would technically not be detected. Not saying that they wouldn’t catch it, but it’s that hard to catch.
At this point, they’re probably simply checking levels of HGH over a period of time in this type of invasive drug testing.
Well, invasive or not my way of thinking is that they won’t only check HGH levels but testosterone levels which give a clear indication of high levels vs test done at later dates. I think that plays a big role in the testing process.
You can get the same testosterone levels checked during urine. The only reason they’re doing the blood work is for HGH and EPO.
Yep, that’s the reason. Urine and blood tell the whole story.
My point was more so that the only reason they’re testing blood is for HGH. They don’t need to test blood for testosterone levels, because you can get those levels read just as easily through urine. You can’t get any levels of HGH through urine.
In the spirit of Christmas, my apologies for the sarcasm. You are absolutely right GG. I am sure we are all nice persons here. Just differ in opinions
I heard you right and I agree with you Garrett.
Only time will tell…….tick, tock, tick, tock, tick,tock.
Arum says it’s not happening, but I don’t believe him. I still think they have a couple of weeks of wiggle room.
Some people think that if Manny is innocent, its so easy for him to just agree to the test and voila, it will save his image.
Here’s the scenario: If he agrees and loses, everyone will think he won his past fights due to HGH even if he never took it. If he agrees and wins, do you think the Mayweathers and his supporters will say “Mea culpa, he is really the better man”? They will say “haven’t anyone heard of undetectable HGH? There is no way he could have done it without some kind of mysterious voodoo drug!!!”.
My point is: these intrusive tests will not change anything because fans will not cease to be fans because of some tests they barely understand. What it will do is to open a pandora’s box for anyone who is great to always be subjected to the same precedent. And these random tests can purposefully or inadvertently dictate who would be better prepared mentally to win the fight.
This is a tough battle for an “innocent-otherwise-proven-guilty” person, but his best option is to stand his ground on the basis of principle, which is something which some people have difficulty understanding. Win or lose, at least he will prove that he is not a pushover outside the ring and this may be his legacy
A lot of people hated Ali when he refused to go to a war he didn’t believe in and called him a coward. Years later, people remember him as a man who “stood his ground” when his principles were compromised. Whether you agree with it or not, only Ali knows the real reason behind his decision.
The same goes for Manny.
Gil, things aren’t the way you explain. Pac Man is not in the same boat as Ali. And news flash, Ali is not as beloved as you make him out to be. He treated people like shit especially other fighters. In
my book that’s the mark of a real scum bag if you ask me. But in life what goes around comes back around. Today Ali can’t hold a normal conversation with you I guess God silenced his big mouth
for him? Just remember God hates mockers and Ali did his fair share of mocking. Ali lost the greatest fight of the century to Frazier a man who Ali never thanked for helping him get his boxing license back. Are you getting the picture of Ali now? He was no dam good.
Manny is 10 times the person Ali was so please don’t put them in the same sentence. In life people are always put to the test its our job to do our best to pass them. Pac Man’s best option
is to adhere to the (USADA) Drug Test on the basis of principle, which is something which a lot of people have difficulty understanding. Its called fighting a fair fight.
Dave,
It’s pretty harsh to say that God punishes people for those reasons, when I’m not sure that your God and Ali’s God are one and the same.
You don’t know if Pacquiao is 10 times the man that Ali is. I’ve heard many stories out of the Philippines that Pacquiao is just as big of a womanizer as anyone else out there. I don’t know it to be true, but the stories are out there. But that’s why we judge what these guys do in the ring, and not what they do in their regular lives. We are not a part of that.
Once you start judging people in the way that you’re doing, you start living in a glass house.
We also probably shouldn’t put athletes on the morality expectations that we’d expect out of ourselves. We don’t live in their shoes.
I’ve also written a new post based on the new information.
It’s here: https://fightgamemedia.com/2009/12/more-on-pacquiao-mayweather-and-hgh-and-it-gets-sillier/.
Thanks for all the comments guys. This has really and truly been a fantastic discussion. I wonder how long we can keep this up.
Oh I forgot to mention Gil, people are not as dum as you make them out to be, today’s sports fan knows more about drug tests and the sweet science then ever before so give people a little credit, they will figure out what Manny did or didn’t do.
Gil, Gil, I never mentioned anything about Manny or Ali’s private life. I just explained how Manny knows how to treat people in and out of the public eye where as Ali was a real scum bag for the way he treated people. And yes God does punish people
remember Ali was really Clay who was a baptist Christian, now a Muslim. Remember, you pay for what you do in this life and since Ali was harsh with people just look at him now. I’d say he’s being delt with harshly don’t you think?
Good site shows how scared Pac Man gets when taking a blood test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbmqay72a6o
“I never mentioned anything about Manny or Ali’s private life.”
Explain how treating people has anything to do with his boxing inside the ring. Because from the looks of it, you’re only talking about his private life.
I’m sure that whichever religion you believe in, you fear the God that you believe in. But to make a claim that because you think Ali treated people badly that he now has an incurable disease is just way too judgmental in my eyes. In a way, you’re talking badly about someone who you claim treated people badly. There’s a parallel there and it comes off a bit hypocritical.
How do you know that his disease has anything other than simply that he took too many punches to the head? Do you really think that God is worrying about the way Muhammad Ali treated others instead of how many others he inspired? Where’s the cut-off? Because I’d say that he’s the most beloved boxer of our time. So if he treated so many people badly, why is he so loved? And I know every argument you’re going to come back with. You must’ve read “Ghosts Of Manilla”.
I never read Ghost of Manilla but I will say you make me LOL……My judgment of Ali is based upon videos and numerous sound bites of Ali well being Ali. Like I said before you pay for
what you do wrong in this life maybe that is way Ali is the way he is today. Oh by the way I was born in 1979 so I’m not in the least inspired about who Ali is and who he’d like us to believe he is. I’m not good at drinking his cool aid I guess.
As far as Ali being beloved by many, well people choose what they want to believe in. Just like everbody believed that Ali would beat Frazier in the fight of the century and Frazier messed that one up for those cool aid people.
Roger Mayweather makes me laugh in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c688LpWuLSI&feature=related
We can get into religious talk, but it’s probably best that we don’t. It has nothing to do about this situation anyway.
And in all actuality, it was better for Ali and Frazier in the long run that Frazier won that first fight. If Ali won the first fight, they may not have had two more very big money fights after.
So I don’t think Ali was punished in any way for that loss. It was the best thing that ever happened to him.
I totally agree on the your Article.
Mayweather has many alibis as he is afraid in facing Pacquio in the Ring.
First of all, Mayweather’s team sets many conditions on Pacquio which is not good in the eyes of those watching. If I am Pacquio, I will retire and wait for Mayweather to fight like a man. Not like a jerk.
Floyd jr. is just making another alibi to avoid the fight.This might be his first loss after all and this will happen againts an opponent much smaller his size.By the way what’s the difference of taking the blood test two days before the fight and taking it right after the fight.If i am Pacquiao i would rather it tested after the fight.
Arnobie,
Just to be clear, I don’t think Mayweather is afraid of facing Pacquiao at all. I just think he wants to A) establish dominance as the alpha dog and B) frustrate Team Pacquiao.
Hey Jaime,
The difference between taking the blood test two days before the fight and taking it right after the fight is really all about how long the drug you’re being tested for stays in your system. If they’re testing for HGH, it doesn’t stay in the body for very long. That’s why when Arum says they won’t do any blood testing 30 days before the fight, it’s a stupid statement because it means that per the rule, Manny could load up on HGH (if he’s talking, not that he is) in the last 30 days of the fight.
I think team Mayweather has already frustrated Team Pacquiao.
Just look at the Drama Manny is causing.
I really think that was what he’s been trying to do all along here.
Oh, and many many people feel the best fight ever was the Fight of the Century in 1971 because they were both undefeated and people wanted to know who was the best and Frazier proved he
was. In my opinion it was the best thing that ever happened to Frazier too, because he would go on to fight Foreman TWICE got to give Frazier credit no one dared try that with Foreman. But
Frazier was never the same after those fights with Foreman which is the reason the 2nd and 3rd fight with Ali lacked the lure and attraction that was the Fight of the Century. Till this day it has never been duplicated.
Check out round 15 got to love it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ3aUmSBSbY&feature=related
Pacquiao is using illegal drugs, why else would he avoid drug tests. Simple.
I don’t think it’s that cut and dry, but it definitely leads to suspicion and I don’t think anyone can blame you for thinking that.
You would have to be deaf, dum and blind not to see that it is that CUT and DRY. Christ, now I feel good knowing I’m not the only one seeing the truth so is Optimus Prime. Cheaters never proper and Pac Man is a cheater.
Pacquiao is a great boxer. He is really a “Pacman”. He is very powerful I think mayweather is scared to him. Mayweather is a losser. Next is Antonio Margarito.